Interview with Mahmood Khan Achakzai - Daily Times

Sarfaraz Ahmad

"Baloch and Pushtoon have never lived under same administration"- Mahmood Khan Achakzai, head of the Pushtoonkhwa Milli Awami Party

• We don't want to gain through fraud and deceit a single inch of land that belongs to other people
• The Baloch have no interest in Gwadar becoming another Switzerland
• The entire local population of Gwadar can be wiped out easily
• I charge all those who claim to have helped create Pakistan with injecting corruption in society
• Our [Punjabi] military and bureaucracy... have decided that they won't let democracy flourish
• The plan for building cantonments in Balochistan should be dropped
• Rather than running after people who are firing at the installations; we should look for their reasons

Mahmood Khan Achakzai is a seasoned politician. His Pushtoonkhwa Milli Awami Party is a key component of PONM. A member of the National Assembly, Mr Achakzai is a member of Parliamentary Committee on Inter-provincial Harmony. The media-shy Achakzai spoke to Daily Times’ Karachi resident editor Sarfaraz Ahmed in Quetta last week. Some excerpts from the interview:

Daily Times: Some Baloch nationalist leaders, particularly Dr Hayee, whose party is your ally in the PONM, have said that the establishment has been conspiring to pit the Pushtoon against the Baloch. What do you have to say?

Mahmood Khan Achakzai: We have never been used against anyone in the past and we will not become a tool for anybody. Dr Hayee holds that the Baloch - who number a few million - should have the same political rights as the Punjabis and Sindhis, whose numbers run in scores of millions. I hold likewise that the Pushtoon in Balochistan, while a minority, must be treated as equal citizens. That's all. I have told Dr Hayee that he's not being fair. His reply would be "bhai chara" [fraternity]. But if you separate bhai (brother) from chara (fodder), the latter is only given to animals. Balochistan is still our province. We don't want to spoil it. The way a Baloch supports a natural Balochistan, he should also support a natural Pushtoon land, a natural Seraiki land.

DT: Don't you think this could lead to a confrontation between the Baloch and Pushtoon?

MKA: I don't think so. Even if it does happen, I don't think the Baloch and Pushtoon will fight among themselves. As far as the [dispute over] Quetta and its surrounding areas is concerned, the Pushtoon have their views and the Baloch have theirs. The records kept by patwaris as well as other offices and historical evidence will verify the claims. We will resolve it.

DT: Will, in your opinion, the dispute over Quetta and its surroundings be resolved amicably?

MKA: We don't want to gain through fraud and deceit a single inch of land that belongs to other people. Nor will we allow others to occupy ours. If the dispute arises, as you have said, we will seek to resolve it through time-tested universal procedures. We can go from one forum to another. We have reached an understanding with Sardar Attaullah Mengal in PONM that we will adopt known methods and procedures to resolve such disputes.

DT: Baloch nationalists fear that they will be outnumbered by the labour force employed at Gwadar. Drawn from Punjabis and Pushtoon, this labour force will turn them into Red Indians?

MKA: Their fears are not misplaced. This is the reason for their resistance. What happened to the gas discovered in Sui? What happened to the rivers that belonged to the Pushtoons? What happened to the land that belonged to Serakis? Army generals were allotted huge tracts of land for a mere Rs 500. The Baloch have no interest in Gwadar becoming another Switzerland. They know that it won't belong to them any longer. The entire population of Balochistan is hardly six or seven million. The entire local population of Gwadar can be wiped out easily. They are right. We should support the Baloch.

DT: PONM chief Sardar Attaullah Mengal has said that he has no objection to people coming to Gwadar from other places and working there. His one reservation is that they should not be allowed to vote there. Is that open to debate? Do you agree with Sardar Mengal?

MKA: We can think about it. Your suggestion that it is debateable sounds more accurate.

DT: But it has often happened, particularly in the case of Karachi, that such people acquired dual vote.

MKA: A person with dual voter registration will not travel 1,400 miles to cast votes in both places.

DT: But dual registration affects allocation of funds.

MKA: If you become a British national you are registered as a voter immediately. This problem can arise anywhere. This, too, is a debateable point.

DT: What can be the best solution as far as Gwadar is concerned?

MKA: Giving political power to the natives or the local people. If the people of Karachi are politically empowered, it can become one of the best cities in the world. We can defend and protect ourselves only if we are politically empowered. Insofar the Baloch are right.

But we have to tell the Baloch that they should be honest. When we don't want to be outnumbered by any community on our own land, then we should also allow other communities this right. Nobody should be outnumbered. No area's geography, culture and history should be changed through political power and engineered population movement.

We should seriously address the Baloch concerns on these issues. We must work towards addressing their apprehensions. If we are able to address their apprehensions, then we do not have to listen to anything else they say. But we must entertain anything reasonable that they say.

We must accept first that Gwadar belongs to the Baloch. The provincial government should control the Gwadar project. There is no denying that Gwadar is part of Pakistan. True democracy can solve all such problems. In order to create a strong and democratic Pakistan, our party has given its recommendations to Senator Wasim Sajjad, chairman of the parliamentary sub-committee on inter-provincial harmony, on March 12 2005. We have recommended that the province should be given its share of jobs in the federal departments, corporations and banks under the federal government and in other sectors. In addition, the province should be compensated for the losses in the past.

DT: What were your other recommendations?

MKA: We recommended a Rs 57 billion project to provide water storage in the province (particularly in the southern Pushtoonkhwa) and to provide relief to the drought-stricken Pushtoon and Baloch people. This has been proposed by the Irrigation Department. The project should include construction and maintenance of dams and protection walls, tube-wells etc. The drought-stricken Pushtoon and Baloch people should be provided relief by writing off their debts owed to banks and by waiving their electricity bills. The agriculturalists of the province should get subsidies.

We have also given recommendations on issues like provincial autonomy; the determination of the political and constitutional relations between the Pushtoon and Brahwi Baloch, development and utilisation of natural resources and the drought. We have suggested that constitutional guarantees be given for the province's share of jobs in central services and corporations.

DT: What do you think of the three cantonments being set up in Balochistan, which have been vociferously opposed by some Baloch nationalist parties?

MKA: The plan for building cantonments in Balochistan should be dropped as the writ of the state extends to every nook and corner of the province.

DT: How do you view the on-going mini-insurgency in Balochistan? The Baloch have allegedly taken up arms against the state and are targeting national installations and assets.

MKA: Any struggle anywhere in the world will fail unless it has popular backing. We need to distinguish between firecrackers and fatal blasts. If it enjoys mass support, we need to identify the reasons behind it. Rather than running after people who are firing at the installations; we should look for their reasons. Fundamentally, human beings are peace loving. A society requires peace and justice. Unfortunately, in our country, you are allowed to indulge in any illegal, immoral and anti-social act, as long as you are loyal to the government of the day.

DT: It is said that the alleged Baloch insurgents enjoy your party's tacit support as their activities further your agenda of forming the Pushtoonkhwa or Afghania or whatever.

MKA: Our support will never be "tacit". When people have taken up arms, it means they have been pushed to the wall. If we assume that a majority has taken up arms, it means the channels for the resolution of the issue have been closed down. Drawing lines is always dangerous. They can never be erased.

Do you think whatever Attaullah [Sardar Mengal] has been saying is untrue?

A liar, no matter how flamboyant an orator he may be, will never have an army behind him. Those who are struggling even for two meals a day and have taken up arms have cogent and profound reasons for doing so.

DT: You support what the alleged BLA and BLF have been doing in Balochistan?

MKA: I may not support taking up arms. But, as a political person, I may support the cause.

DT: Will you shed some more light on their and other nationalists’ reason for taking up arms?

MKA: Balochistan has been producing gas since the 1950s. But the Baloch or Pushtoon living in this province are not benefiting from it. Even today, a Baloch woman collects wood for fuel while people living 1,400 miles away are benefiting from the gas. The Pushtoon province produced the largest amount of electricity before the One Unit was established. It costs 25 paisas to produce hydro electricity sold for five rupees. Why should a Pushtoon pay for the costly Quetta power plant? If you talk of Pakistan, then you should also make me a partner in the other areas of Pakistan; make me a partner in prosperity. But the amount of electricity Balochistan gets equals the electricity loss of Lahore's industrial units.

DT: Why didn't Nawab Akbar Bugti's Jamhoori Watan Party join the PONM?

MKA: We are a democratic people. Our president, Sardar Attaullah Mengal, must have more knowledge and information about this. You have spoken to him. We do not close the doors on whoever wants to join us. But we cannot prevent anybody from leaving us. For example, the Awami National Party played an important role in the formation of PONM. But it quit PONM shortly afterwards. If someone wants to know why, they should ask ANP.

DT: Why is there a need for your party in the presence of ANP, which is a Pushtoon ethnic party and a reincarnation of the defunct NAP?

MKA: NAP came into being through the alliance of political forces that were left-oriented, anti-establishment and democratic. It wanted Pakistan to be a federation; the One Unit to be abolished; provinces on the basis of language, culture and history of the people so that Pushtoon, Sindhis, Seraikis, Punjabis, Baloch and Bengalis would all have their own provinces. Then a movement was launched.

Soon after the imposition of Ayub Khan's martial law, Bacha Khan, Maulana Bhashani and Abdul Samad Achakzai were arrested. Samad Achakzai underwent 14 years of rigorous imprisonment. Within 12 days of his release, he was arrested for organising a rally.

These sacrifices were rendered to dismantle the One Unit and establishment of provinces on the basis of language, culture and history. Finally, the One Unit was abolished. A roundtable conference was held. But unfortunately, the NAP leadership lost sight of its manifesto. A new Baloch province was imposed on us and previous provinces were revived.

Kalat, Mekran and Jhal Magsi were joined with our area. Tribal people were put together with urban people. They [tribal people] become our chief ministers, our lawmakers. This forced Samad Achakzai to discuss the matter with Bacha Khan who was then in Kabul. Samad Achakzi formed a separate party, NAP (Pushtoonkhwa). Pushtoonkhwa was introduced in politics with the formation of this party. In 1989, we merged it with Mazdoor Kissan Party Pushtoonkhwa and named it Pushtoonkhwa Milli Awami Party.

DT: Which period of history will you refer for deciding which areas belong to the Pushtoon?

MKA: The present. When the British came, we were a mini super power in the region. When the British left, we had been made subservient. The Afghan's only fault was that he wanted to defend his motherland. British historians, too, have written that the last 100 years of war in India represented a war between British India and the Afghans. There is no direct road or railway link between Quetta and Peshawar. We were transformed into a subservient people. We were brought to Karachi. We are being pushed to Dubai. The Pushtoon have become a labour force abroad because of colonial politics.

DT: What about people who have descended from the Pushtoon and settled all over the subcontinent. Many of them live in Karachi, for example those hail from Rohail Khund in UP. Of course, they don't speak Pushto like you. Do you define a Pushtoon as somebody who speaks Pushto?

MKA: [Pushtoon identity is] not just a matter of language. History is something else. My opinion - which is not to be taken to be my party's position - is that a majority of Pushtoon in Karachi will leave the city if they are assured that they will find work and education opportunities for their children in their motherland. The Pushtoon loves his motherland. You’d make a Pushtoon haji angry if you tell him that he may die in Makkah or Madina. His wish is to die and be buried in his own area.

DT: Karachi's population includes a large number of Pushtoon or Pushto-speaking people.

MKA: Our party has units wherever there are Pushtoon people. Their sweat and blood has led to the development of Karachi. All your cities have been built by the Pushtoon. All your canals have been dug by the Pushtoon. Even in 1947, there were more Pushtoon in Karachi than Punjabis, Urdu-speaking people and Sindhis. But we are chowikdars. There is a National Assembly seat for 500,000-600,000 people and a provincial assembly seat for 60,000-100,000 people.

Even if we go by the conservative estimates about the Pushtoon population in Karachi, they should have at least 20 seats in the provincial assembly and five to six seats in the National Assembly. But this doesn't happen. In Karachi the delimitation of constituencies has been such that they cannot be elected. They don't even have civic rights. This despite the fact that there is no real economic conflict with the Urdu-speaking people or the Sindhis. No one talks of their language and culture either.

DT: But there is great ethnic diversity in Karachi.

MKA: People say Karachi is a mini-Pakistan. All those living in Karachi should have the right to represent themselves. In Lebanon, for example, both Maronite Christians and Sunni Muslims are represented. When all of us are represented at the municipal, provincial and national levels in accordance with our population, nobody will be able to claim Karachi as exclusively theirs.

DT: What about the Pushto-Hindku contradiction in the NWFP?

MKA: It's no contradiction; it's beauty. Historically, there were two languages each in upper Afghanistan and lower Afghanistan: Persian and Pushto and Hindku and Pushto. Chach Hazara was a great centre of resistance to the British.

DT: How would you like Balochistan to be divided between the Baloch and Pushtoon, and what are your demands with regards to Pushtoonkhwa?

MKA: Historically, the Baloch and the Pushtoon have never lived under the same administration. They were brought under the same administration in 1970. There should have been a Baloch province comprising Baloch areas. The Pushtoon here were Afghan citizens till 1879. Pakistan is composed of Pushtoon, Baloch, Sindhi, Seraiki and Punjabi nationalities: each should have their own motherland - Pushtoonkhwa/Afghania, Balochistan, Sindh, Seraikistan and the Punjab, respectively. Pushtoonkhwa/Afghania should be composed of the NWFP (Pushtoonkhwa) and the chief commissioner's province (southern Pushtoonkhwa) excluding the Baloch areas; and the Pushtoon territory of Attock and Mianwali.

The chief commissioner's Pushtoon province (southern Pushtoonkhwa) should be revived and made an autonomous province. Provisionally, the political, economic, financial and administrative powers of Balochistan should be shared by the Pushtoon and Baloch. Moreover, central Pushtoonkhwa or the seven Pushtoon Agencies and Tribal Areas adjoining various districts should elect a national jirga and an executive on the basis of adult franchise. The dictatorial colonial laws should be done away with.

DT: Can you suggest ways to take the country out of its present morass?

MKA: It is called the fortress of Islam. This fortress is so repressive that we cannot raise a voice against our sardars or maliks. Islam emphasises equality and justice but when we talk of rights, we are accused spreading hatred. We hate the word hate. But those [clerics] in the Pushtoon areas who make big claims about their commitment to Islam do not believe in equality. I haven't seen a single mullah shaking hands with a sweeper. The British, who wanted to eliminate genuine leadership, patronised the false people. But why should this policy continue? Why should those who sold the country's sovereignty, autonomy, freedom and honour be in power? This is happening in the name of Islam, Pakistan and Lahore.

Difference of opinion is a beautiful thing. But here, it seems, a genuine leadership will never be tolerated; never allowed to participate in Pakistan's politics. Leaders cannot be manufactured like buses and aeroplanes. You may leave Jinnah, an ill and elderly person, aside... Even he was forced to commit an illegal act by winding up an elected Frontier government. I charge all those who claim to have helped create Pakistan with injecting corruption in society.

All those who were not in Muslim League when Pakistan came into being were declared traitors. But all political people in the Muslim world were against the division of India. This included the JI, the JUI, the Khaksars, the Ahrars, the Anjuman-e-Watan and Bacha's Khudai Khidmatgar. Even with the help of a microscope you will not be able to find a political Muslim personality who supported the Two-Nation theory. Those who were loyal to the British were made Pakistan's maamay (guardians). They drew the line: Bacha Khan out, Achakzai out, Bizenjo out, etc. That left us no politician. But Pakistan had to function, so a false leadership was inducted. This corrupted the society. We started worshipping every rising sun. Every newcomer to power got the salute and the one ousted the invectives.

We need to decide once and for all that we need a clean parliamentary system. That armed forces, intelligence agencies and civil services can have no political role whatsoever. All those writing that X, Y and the Army are the three centres of power in Pakistan are abettors in crime.

Why is our army being made a centre of power? Why not the armies of US and France? I cannot even name the US army chief. But if I ask you about Pakistan, you can give me the names of all the corps commanders. I fear that if Pakistan is occupied by some foreign powers there is no one who will resist. Even local elections are manipulated. But I never had any link with any intelligence agency. I have never been to a secretariat or a police station or a government office.

A government official approached me about the local polls. I told him not to interfere in small-scale polls. Don't stop somebody from winning. It won't be difficult to buy him later but at least he will be a genuine leader.

Second, unfortunately, our military and bureaucracy both belong to the Punjab. The two have decided that they won't let democracy flourish. And our judges destroy everything with their seals of nazaria zaroorat, nazaria afadiyat, and nazaria Pakistaniyat.